Question:
ok. I have been goven full responsibility of Buster now that mum has Murphy to work on. So I decided to start it all by walking him through town tomorow to buy lunch.
Now as you all know. Buster is extremley dog agressive outside the yard. Any advice of curbing that behaviour in the long run is appreciated but I know it is going to take a LOT of work.
In the meantime, I am looking for excercises I can try tomorow to help him focus on me and listen to me as I say. I want to make tomorow's walk as fun as it can be as he is VERY jelous now that there are 2 puppies in the house and he isn't centre of attention.
I am willing to put in a good 2 or 3 hours tomorow and take it very slowly. He walks a lot better off leash than on. When off the leash I can usually call him off attacking dogs through fences and such. But when he is on lead he will not calm down. I want to spend some time with him off lead on the way because he learns more when he is realaxed and he can't relax on-lead.
so.. any thing else I should add? i just want a few excercises that he will find fun on the walk tomorow.
xoxo <3
Magsey
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hmm... anyone?
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oh cummon... ideas?
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It appears you've got a challenge on your hands. Perhaps an electronic dog collar might be of assistance. Hope it all works out for you!!!
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putting an e-collar on a dog with aggression issues is a Very Bad Idea.
this statement makes me extremely nervous:
When off the leash I can usually call him off attacking dogs through fences and such.
*usually* is not good enough. if you are not absolutely 100% in control of your dog at all times he is off lead, you have no business having him off-lead. if he is acting aggressively toward other dogs while off lead, even if you are usually able to call him off, he needs to be on a leash.
i'd suggest reading this thread (http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31346) and applying it to your dog.
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yeah. but i know that if i keep him restrained all the time. he is going to get worse. i've tried this. he hates it and it makes him worse in the end.
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My first thought was to work on him being relaxed ON leash before confronting him with other dogs being on-lead. I don't know, but I'd work on on-lead behavior first so he will be relaxed on-lead.
Letting him run loose and giving him the opportunity to try to get other dogs through fences is not learning and shouldn't be accepted, IMO.
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I hope I'm not too late. Please don't put a shock collar on this dog, you'll just make matters worse as elegy said. Also, no dog should be off leash in an on leash environment and no dog should go to an off leash park if they are not social and/or have recall problems.
You do need to work on leash first. This is a weeks/months project, not hours. You need to change your dogs feelings about his triggers not punish his reaction. Desensitization is the only way that you will overcome these issues and it can take a very long time. If you want, I'll help you over PM but I've included a short article that I wrote on the subject for Citizen Pet Magazine to give you an idea.
Dog/dog aggression on walks -
I would first have to know if the reaction occurs on or off leash. Due to the leash laws in this city, and given the fact that no dog aggressive dogs should ever be at an off leash park, I’ll assume this is an on leash problem.
Barrier frustration, sometimes referred to as leash aggression towards other dogs is not as uncommon as you may think. First, if this is true dog/dog aggression, consulting a professional is your best bet. This isn’t a problem that should be dealt with by someone who is inexperienced. Assessing the situation to determine the severity should be done with extreme caution. True dog/dog aggression can escalate to an out of control situation in a big hurry. Knowing how to read not only the body language of both dogs but also to evaluated the contribution made to the situation by the person holding the leash is crucial. That said, there are some exercises that can be done safely to help to desensitize your dog to other dogs.
When out on a walk, being aware of your surroundings, maintaining your dogs focus is key. Desensitization can only be done properly once you discover what your dogs threshold is. This threshold will tell you the distance your dog has to be from another dog in order for him to remain non-reactive. This is the distance that you will work with for the first several sessions. Make sure you have extra special treats with you so that you can not only pair the sight of another dog with something wonderful, but you can also reward for a job well done. When out on your walk, practice behavior training. Walk several yards, ask your dog for a behavior, praise and continue. Repeat this throughout your walk, keeping your dog from becoming heightened by his surroundings. Focus commands such as watch me are a great way to “stay connected” with your dog during the walk. When you do see another dog. Take out your treats, have your dog sit and reward for no reaction. The distance threshold should not be shortened until your dog has shown 100% non-reaction towards the other dog. This process can take a very long time. It has to be done slowly, with no corrections and you may never achieve the nose to nose doggie love that we all want our dogs to experience. Desensitization must not be done using corrections. This common mistake makes for a dog who associates corrections with the presence of other dogs and will result in continued unpredictability. Always err on the side of caution!
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i know how long this takes. I have been working on his issues for over a year now and he has got a LOT better. thing is, he is NEVER relaxed on-lead. so i AM going to allow him off lead time in safe environments. I only let him off away from roads, houses, other dogs etc. I am not letting him run loose all the way and attack anything that moves.
whereas he used to take off after any dog he saw. he nows stops and stands still, whining but not moving. giving us time to put a lead on him.
i will NOT be using a shock collar. i think its a bit cruel and i want him relaxed not anxious or fearful.
I really feel like what i need is to relax him into the the lead. and i will do that. but it is going to take a lONG time. I know.
right now. all i want is to have some excercises to practice on getting him to focus on me! please help with that!
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But what is the point if he is never around other dogs? I wouldn't EVER EVER take this dog near other animals offlead. It's disturbing that he even gets the chance to attack other animals. JMO, but I would work on controlling him before anything else. You can't train a dog that you have no control over.
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I agree. But there is nothing we can do to stop her taking him off leash by the sounds of it.
I would try him on a Halti that way you can turn his head away from the distraction and reward him when he looks at you.
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could someone explain how to train the "watch" command?
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Well, if you use a head collar it is allot easier to teach. When you want his attension gently pull on the leash saying "watch" until he is looking at you. When he is looking at you, reward and just keep repeating until he anticipates and you no longer need to use the leash.
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ok... i might buy one 2moro. I am just a little hesitant. he is very uncomfortable about things around his face and I really wanna keep him calm considering he's already jittery on lead
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Just start him off slow, let him wear it at dinner times and when he is getting a treat. Don't start off by putting a leash on him with the collar, let him learn to associate it with pleasant stuff first, then start training on it.
Good luck
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could someone explain how to train the "watch" command?
Sorry, I'm to lazy to type the whole thing out but this one's OK. The only thing that I do differently is I never put the treat betweein my eyes...I want the dog to make the association with some thought so I start with the treat out to the side right away. This way, the dog gets a much more clear message when he looks from the treat to your eyes. If you have a clicker...even better. And as far as exercises, I gave you that in my previous post:confused:
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/commands/watch-me.pdf
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I don't think you should let this dog off-leash. That's not a good idea, and IMO it is very irresponsible.
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IF it were me....first i would have a very short leash..very very short that you will have full control of. Then when i see a dog in a yard i would make sure i put myself between the fence and my dog . I would have him sit before we got to there and tell him with no uncertainty that it is a NONONO to BARK ( I would actually bark and growl quietly:rolleyes: ) I would have one hand on his scruff as we went by. IT is a dangerous thing you are doing but i understand too that it has to be done. Still you better be strong, and confident, and unafraid at all times. IF he starts to growl I would immediantly make the NONONO in a super firm voice even if i had to push him by the shoulders all the way to the ground to show i mean it. I am not a trainer like some of the others here, not in the same way, we did field and obedience training. I wish CREATURE TEACHER was accessable for her answer i would put faith in. I don't know if you can shield his eyes as you go past or not, one way or the other he has to have full repsect that YOU are the one in control and that YOU wiill not tolerate this behavior at all. If he persists, go back home. ENd of walk, let him know why. Then after awhile try again. IF he wants the attention bad enough and wants to walk Bad enough and repsects you, you might win this one. Do realize that you are taking the risk for his sake and yours. If a fight does break out, DONT USE YOUR HANDS TO SEPERATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
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heres why you shoud not use an electric collor
If it’s painful, it could lead to the dog bolting in fear, in an attempt to escape the shock. Bolting dogs may be involved in car accidents or may become lost. It’s impossible to predict how much it will hurt a dog, since we’re all different and like humans, have different pain thresholds.
• Dogs may associate anything they see in front of them with the shock. This can lead to a fear of people or places. For instance, if a dog was to receive a shock whilst approaching or looking at the milkman, he may think that this person was responsible for giving the shock. He may then become aggressive to anyone dressed like a milkman that he meets in the future, in anticipation of feeling pain. Us dogs have long memories and all it can take is one unpleasant experience to start a (bad) habit of a lifetime!
• Owners with dogs that have behaviour problems may find it difficult to control their anger when using these collars.
• People who try the collar on their own wrists may think the shock collar is okay to use because it isn’t REALLY painful - however dog skin is much thinner and so a dog may feel the shock much more than a human. Also if a dog gets wet when wearing a collar, the level of pain can increase. Us poor dogs can become neck and head shy after receiving shocks in this area and this can, understandably, lead to aggressive behaviour. I’m sure you wouldn’t want anyone touching your neck if you were in pain either!
• Dogs who are trained through pain or fear can be unreliable and when pushed could resort to aggression in self-defence. Can you blame us?
• And finally of course, these collars could be used to inflict pain on purpose – not for training – but for fun. Sadly there are always people around who enjoy causing animals pain.
other whys i have no idea what to do, sorry
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its OK! i have NO interst in the electric collar. NOT EVER an option!
thing is. its hard to desensitize him. there are aggressive dogs all over my street. down one way there are loose dogs. camp dogs witout homes so i go the other way. EXCEPT this way there are about 4 really agressive dogs in yards on the way. i can;t walk him anywhere were he can be slowly desensitized
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If there are aggressive dogs on your street, and loose dogs as well you have no business taking your dog out there at all. There is no point in setting yourself up for disaster.
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ok. I have been goven full responsibility of Buster now that mum has Murphy to work on. So I decided to start it all by walking him through town tomorow to buy lunch.Now as you all know. Buster is extremley dog agressive outside the yard. Any advice of curbing that behaviour in the long run is appreciated but I know it is going to take a LOT of work. In the meantime, I am looking for excercises I can try tomorow to help him focus on me and listen to me as I say. I want to make tomorow's walk as fun as it can be as he is VERY jelous now that there are 2 puppies in the house and he isn't centre of attention.I am willing to put in a good 2 or 3 hours tomorow and take it very slowly. He walks a lot better off leash than on. When off the leash I can usually call him off attacking dogs through fences and such. But when he is on lead he will not calm down. I want to spend some time with him off lead on the way because he learns more when he is realaxed and he can't relax on-lead.so.. any thing else I should add? i just want a few excercises that he will find fun on the walk tomorow.xoxo <3Magsey
It sounds like you've worked very hard with him and I hate to be negative, but from the sound of it, I think you're pushing a little too hard by taking him on a walk through the situation you describe - many loose dogs, many aggressive dogs - at this stage. Until he can control his yearning to run at the other dogs - and I know what it's like, my dog's a herding breed too, and her holy grail is motion, especially dog motion - taking him out on walks in such a distraction-rich environment is tantamount to teasing him.
Unless you have a yard, you may need to exercise him in public, but I'd be cautious about when and where. If you feel he absolutely needs some off-leash time, please be very careful in choosing a place and time, and remain alert to trouble while he's free. I don't know if he's truly aggressive, or just highly reactive to other dogs, but if he runs at them, it's a) dangerous and scary for the target and b) potentially deadly for him if he chooses a badder dog.
Personally, I think you'd be better off really working on his attention to you and his obedience, while staying in a space where he feels comfortable, such as the house or yard. Distractions are a good test of training, but you have to give the dog a reasonable chance to establish the routine of paying attention to you and obeying your commands.
Good luck!
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If there are aggressive dogs on your street, and loose dogs as well you have no business taking your dog out there at all. There is no point in setting yourself up for disaster.
Ditto!
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i've *been* through this with my dog. we had an unfenced yard with a schnauzer next door who'd charge the fence whenever he saw us (or charge the back window if he was inside). he wasn't always there, but that made it even more of a reinforcement (that whole slot machine scenario). if i took my dog out to potty in the back, the dog might be there. if i took her out the front, the dog might be there. no matter what direction i went on the street, there were dogs behind fences running and barking. (she flipped out at dogs on leashes, but dogs behind fences were and continue to be her biggest trigger.)
and luce would wig out every single time. it sucked. a lot. so i know exactly where you're coming from. my stupidhead dog broke my finger wigging out at another dog.
it took a LOT of work in empty fields, in empty parkinglots, in multiple obedience classes with a trainer who understood what i was working on and who didn't mind if we stepped out of the group until she could calm down, and then eventually moving closer and closer to trigger situations. it took a long time. she's still not "fixed" but she's usually acceptable in public.
it takes patience, lots of good treats, and starting somewhere that your dog is not too spazzed to pay attention to you. it's a gradual process. it's frustrating sometimes that the movement is so slow, but sticking with it, setting your dog up to succeed again and again and again, is the only way you're going to get where you want to be.